Mike Crowe's Tool Suggestions:
I got this from Mickey Coggins' web site. Mike Crowe posted this email on the Matronics RV-List. It is a good note. Like Mickey, I worked with Mike to build my tail at the Alexander Technical Center, and thought he is a good guy. This is Mike's posting (with my grammatical and spelling corrections): My own notes and comments are in red.
See my main tools page for more info & pics on essential and nice-to-have tools.
--> RV-List message posted by: "Michael D Crowe"
To introduce myself, first I am an A&P mechanic with an IA. I work as a Lead
Mechanic for a major air line. For the past two years I have worked part
time at the Alexander Technical Center
at Griffin GA as an instructor on their quick start tail assembly program.
I have been involved in over 100 tail kits. I have worked on the 6,7,8,9 and
10 kits. I am also building a RV8A myself.
As each class begins, I ask if the student have already purchased their
tools. My hopes are that they have not, as we have a good selection of tools
to try from the different manufacturers. The ones that have gotten their
tools before coming often say I wish I had gotten this tool or that tool
instead. In the following, I will try to give you a list and suggestions of
tools that I have learned over the past two years. Please keep in mind that
this information is my opinion and mine alone. Others may agree or disagree.
There are two major suppliers of tools for the RV tail kits that I recommend
Avery and Cleaveland.
Both are RV builders and
are good and honest people to do business with.
I have found Avery's customer service to be superb, on each of the many
occasions I have done business with them. I have found Cleaveland's
customer service to be quite lacking on multiple occasions. Other than
a couple good tools that Cleaveland carries and Avery does not (and I've
suggested to Avery that they add these couple items), I would not do
business with Cleaveland again.
I would buy a tool kit from Avery or Cleaveland to begin with. Both will
allow you to add or subtract the tools you want to the kit. I will use both
their 2004 catalogs as a guide.
First, if you buy Cleaveland's kit, I would buy their complete airframe
tool package p/n Comp-Kit 04. If 'twas me,
I'd just scroll down to the "If you buy an Avery kit" section, or just
click here.
I would subtract from the kit:
BBRP-48 Back Riveting Plate-It is a nice plate, but too small in my opinion.
Bigger is better. Heavier is better. You can easily make your
own. See my main tools page for pics & details.
CF-80 C-Frame Riveting Tool-More about C-Frames later, but if you get this
one also order their C-Frame Table Kit CTF-48
ASRD-14 Air Swivel Regulator- I have found the round knob regulator is hard
to regulate. I agree - either get the T-shaped
ones or get a diaphram-type pressure regulator. See my main
tools page for pics & details.
I would add to the kit:
I would upgrade to the 3X Rivet gun. The 2x works good on the 3/32 rivet, but
not well on the 1/8 rivet. Get a 3x to work well on the 1/8, and turn down
the pressure a little to do the 3/32, or better yet buy one of each.
DP-8 Drive Pin Punches- This is a nice punch set. You could get by
with only the 3/32 and 1/8 (you will be removing a few bad rivets).
You WILL be removing at least a few rivets.
Don't go crazy over drilling out rivets, though; often a rivet that's
drilled-out for some minor imperfection will end up with a
worse/weaker rivet than what you started with.
LBL-13 BOELUBE Do not drill lead without it.
I don't know why he says this about lead, but I'm sure
he knows what he's talking about. You also need this stuff just for
general drilling, especially into anything steel and/or very thick.
3MW-77S6 Light deburring wheel- You get a rougher one in the kit. You
need both. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get a grinder and install these
wheels. You definitely need both wheels, as I
learned at ATC, and have certainly proven while building my plane.
Make sure you check that the hole diameter is compatible with whatever you
are going to mount these wheels onto; I had to order my wheels from
MSC to get the right arbor hole diameter
I needed. Avery's customer
service is SO GOOD, they even helped me spec out what I needed to order from
MSC, as Avery didn't have what would fit my 3/4" arbors.
3MP-47 Scotch-Brite pads- you will need plenty. I
bought a case of the maroon ones from MSC.
DIE509-10 #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIES- You will need these to dimple for the screws
for the lead weights. You also need a #10
countersink cutter to cut into the lead for the dimple.
SNYT-45 4in THIN NOSE YOKE- You are going to need a thin nose and a 4in nose.
Get them both in one.
SNYF-35 2.5in FLANGE NOSE YOKE- There are places where nothing else is going
to reach.
RSMS-75 SWIVEL FLUSH SET WITH RUBBER GUARD- You must cut some of the rubber
down, or your rivets will set too high
CLP-20 CLEKO PLIERS- One is not enough. unless
you like looking for your tools
CLC-50 1/2in CLEKO CLAMP- You get 4. You need at least 10
CLC-100 1in CLEKO CLAMP- You get 4. You need at least 10
For the RV9 DIECS4-4 120 DEGREE DIES FOR 1/8 POP RIVETS- You use a lot
of CS4-4 on the skin of your elevators. They are 120 degrees.
You need these for more than just the -9.
For our RV10 friends RSB-12 12in back rivet set- You will need this to
back rivet the stiffeners on the elevators.
The RV10 will also need BBRV10 SPECIAL BUCKING BAR- You will need this
for the elevators.
I would buy from Avery to complete the kit from Cleaveland:
575 hand seamer 3-1/2 jaw-I use this to squeezing the trailing edge of the
trim tabs.
550 3/32 vise grip dimpler- several places on ribs this is needed.
150 AIR TOOL REGULATOR- This one is easier to adjust.
1046 SPEED DEBURRING AND COUNTERSINKING TOOL
23904 4 PC. HOOK AND PICK SET- You will need a pick many times for aligning
skins TRUE - very handy
For the RV9 42120 SPECIAL 120 DEGREE COUNTERSINK- Used where you use
CS4-4
rivets on the elevators. You'll need this for
more than just the -9. Don't forget to get the 120 degree dimple
dies, too. When I got my 120 degree dimple dies, only Cleaveland had
them. I suggested to Avery that they stock them. I don't know if
they acted upon my suggestion.
If you buy an Avery tool kit, I would
buy the RV-3,-4-6-7-8-9and -10 builders tool kit.
I would subtract from the kit:
1001 22in hand rivet and dimpling tool. It is their C-frame tool.
It is a good tool, but see below about my recommendations for a C-frame tool
10765 POLYETHYLENE DIMPLING MALLET- Goes with the C-frame tool. If you get
the C-frame tool, get the mallet.
500 FLUTING PLIERS- You need a pair of fluting pliers. I like Cleaveland's a lot better. I like Avery's
Vise-Grip fluting pliers much better. For example, I doubt you can
flute 0.063" sheet very well with the Cleaveland fluting pliers. Click
here for an application example.
1042 EDGE ROLLING TOOL- I can not get this tool to work for me. It could
just be me. See Cleaveland's EF-60 below
3507 3M RIVETING TAPE- Works well. If you use it, take it off after use;
it is real hard to get off later. Scotch Removable Magic Tape works as
well
and is much cheaper.
9885 ANGLE DRILL KIT- Nice kit not needed for the tail kit.
Could be used
later. I think it would be MUCH harder to build
the plane without some sort of angle drill. I recommend the kind that
takes the threaded drill bits. You can get them used on ebay for much
cheaper than new in the tool catalogs. Buyer beware, of course.
1054 #8 SCREW COUNTERSINK CUTTER- Not needed for the tail kit.
but you'll need it later - get it
25500 SWIVEL HEAD POP RIVET TOOL- If you must use a hand pop tool, use Cleaveland's PRS-20.
It is much easier to squeeze.
I would add to the kit:
7760 4in NO HOLE YOKE
7755 LONGERON YOKE
811 RIVETING TAPE- Scotch removable magic tape.
1003 BOELUBE Do not drill lead without it.
I don't know why he says this about lead, but
I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. You also need this stuff
just for general drilling, espeially into anything steel and/or very thick.
200 CLECO PLIERS- One is not enough.
1661 Light deburring wheel- You get a rougher one in the kit. You need
both. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get a grinder and install these
wheels. You definitely need both wheels, as I
learned at ATC, and have certainly proven while building my plane.
Make sure you check that the hole diameter is compatible with whatever you
are going to mount these wheels onto; I had to order my wheels from
MSC to get the right arbor hole diameter
I needed. Avery's
customer service is SO GOOD, they even helped me spec out what I needed to
order from MSC, as Avery didn't have what would fit my arbors.
23904 4 PC. HOOK AND PICK SET-You will need a pick many times for aligning
skins.
For the RV9 42120 SPECIAL 120 DEGREE COUNTERSINK-Used where you use
CS4-4 rivets on the elevators. You'll need this
for more than just the -9 and for more than just the elevators. Don't forget to get the 120 degree
dimple dies, too. When I got my 120 degree dimple dies, only Cleaveland had them. I suggested to Avery that they stock them.
I don't know if they acted upon my suggestion.
For the RV10 630 RV10 ELEVATOR BUCKING BAR
I would buy from Cleaveland to complete the Avery kit:.
3MP-47 Scotch-Brite pads- you will need plenty. I
bought a case of the maroon ones from MSC.
DIE509-10 #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIES- You will need these to dimple for the screws
for the lead weights. You also need a #10
countersink cutter to cut into the lead for the dimple. I don't know
why Avery doesn't carry #10 dies (or 120 degree dies); I've
suggested to them that they do.
EF-60 EDGE FORMER- Needed at seams I like this Cleaveland edge former much better than the Avery version. For
example, I could not have used the Avery model to do
this.
HS-30 OFFSET HAND SEAMER- Used many places
FP-200 FLUTING PLIERS- Used to straighten ribs. I like Avery's
Vise-Grip fluting pliers much better. For example, I doubt you can
flute 0.063" sheet very well with the Cleaveland fluting pliers. Click
here for an application example.
For the RV9 DIECS4-4 120 DEGREE DIES FOR 1/8 POP RIVETS- You use a lot
of CS4-4 on the skin of your elevators. They are 120 degrees.
As I've mentioned above, you will need these 120
degree dimple dies and countersink cutters for more than just the -9 and for
more than just the elevators. I had to get them for my -7A, and I
imagine all the Van's models will need them. All the Van's models use CS4-4 pop
rivets, and you need 120 degree cutters and dies for the CS4-4 rivets.
If you use the 100 degree dies & cutters on CS4-4 pop rivets, your pop rivet
heads will not seat properly, and will stick up.
For our RV10 friends RSB-12 12in back rivet set- You will need this to
back rivet the stiffeners on the elevators.
Tools that would be nice to have:
PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER- In my opinion, a must-have. Get a 214 style. Make sure to
get an adjustable set holder for it. I agree
completely. Not an option, but a must-have. Get them used on
ebay for a couple hundred bucks.
PNEUMATIC POP RIVET GUN- Go to Harbor Freight or such and get one for around
$40.00 Even though I am considered a "tool nut",
I don't have one, and don't really see the need for one on an RV. To
each his own.
LIGHTWEIGHT HOSE KITS- Makes it a lot easier to handle drills and rivet guns.
I agree - I got mine from
MSC.
TATCO HAND SQUEEZER WITH 2in YOKE- Makes it a lot easier to dimple all those
ribs. I agree - nice to have, if you can afford
it (after getting the not-so-optional pneumatic squeezer. Quick & easy
to use. I got mine on sale at The Yard
Store.
C-FRAME DIMPLER:
Made by EXPERIMENTAL AERO.
I brought a DRDT-1 dimplier and installed it at Alexander Technical Center
to try it out in
January this year. Boy, was that a mistake. There is no way I am
getting it back. It is the best I have used for dimpling. It gives the best
dimples; it is consistent,
quiet, and a one-man operation.
There is no way I am going back to the old C-frame hammer method. Now, if I
need to dimple, I pack up what I have and drive 32 miles, even though I have a
hammer C-frame dimpler at home. It is that much better. They now sell the
DRDT-2 which has some improvement over the -1. I
have not used one of these lever-activated dimplers from Experimental Aero, but I have heard
nothing but good things about them.
Mike Crowe
See my main tools page for more info & pics on essential and nice-to-have tools.
brian
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